Orange LED (daylight bright) blinks out maximum height in decimeters. Find out more about Ford Approved and Ford Direct on our Approved Used page . Oh, ok, thank you! If you have a clear or white colored nose cone: "paint it a dark color.". A list of countries prohibiting them via FedEx are listed here, but the list may not be all inclusive:https://www.fedex.com/content/dam/fedex/us-united-states/services/LithiumBatteries_Limitations.pdf. This tiny, easy to use altimeter audibly reports your rocket's peak altitude and maximum velocity after flight via a sequence of beeps. 719-534-9050, Email Us: There was a problem preparing your codespace, please try again. Are you sure you want to create this branch? 9:00am-4:45pm, M-F Store Address: 4960 Northpark Drive Colorado Springs, CO 80918. This is the smallest, lightest single event altimeter that you can buy! DO NOT contact Apogee. This small data-logging altimeter was designed specifically for the modelers that compete in international rocketry competitions (FAI). If you want to set an altitude record with an Estes Mini-size motor, this is the altimeter to use. Flight data can be downloaded to a computer for display and analysis. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Because of sunlight hitting the sensor, it can falsetrigger (indicating a launch). The APRA is an entry-level altimeter that doesn't compromise on accuracy and capability despite its low price. Altimeters software allows you to automatically send data to excel sheet. 0000004376 00000 n Windows 10 software available at:https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1762/3593/files/AltimetrBMP_FTDI_V2018_03.zip?16068286935903135878, Accuracy of measuring the difference of altitude, 1, 2 seconds / measurement sign in Receive our weekly Model Rocketry newsletter and video 4. Model Rocket Kits, Resources and Components: Teaching Tips and Curriculum for Model Rockets, See all items in Rocket Novelties and Gifts, Sign up to receive the Industry Updates Newsletter, 66mm (BT-80 size, also called the 2.6-inch nose), A company that truely cares about customer service, Modifying a Saturn V to Fly on a 38mm Motor. Tim does so much for the hobby from selling quality parts to hisRead More. Team America Rocketry Challenge deals and supplies. Pricing is per foot. INTRODUCTION The . YES / NO Did this rocket make a safe flight and recovery under the TARC 2022 rules & NAR Safety Code? Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Sand Paper. to a computer. It easily fits into the "coupler" for an 18mm tube and weighs a mere 2 grams (with included battery). You can become a Supporting Member which comes with a decal or just click here to donate. YES / NO Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. 8: NAR Rocket-Flying . Description Product Comparison FAQs Reviews Related Related Documentation To view the altitude after the flight, you have to download the data onto your computer. If it gets wet, it may not work.1 Per Pack, This small data-logging altimeter was designed specifically for the modelers that compete in international rocketry competitions (FAI). This saves you weight and construction time. They did very well. The TARC rules for 2022-2023 have been announced (see www.rocketcontest.org). 5, 10, 15, 20 measurements / second, for LiPo 50mAh - 8 hours This video shows how to fold the gliding parachute and get everything ready for launch. 5 stays under the Propellant Wt. 2021 Apogee Components, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Buy the whole set (Altimeter, Battery, Data Port)! 0000047116 00000 n 213 0 obj <> endobj xref Fund Raising page 35 . The selection process is often one of eliminating the products that can't work . See the Launch detect listed on each altimeter's product page to see what requirements it needs to start recording. 719-534-9050, Email Us: Wait for a few seconds and push it back to 30cc and take your finger off the end. If a rocket drops off a . New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, Press J to jump to the feed. It may not display this or other websites correctly. 0000005133 00000 n GotRead More, Apogee brand parts (body tubes, couplers, laser-cut centering rings, etc.) It easily fits into a 10mm diameter tube and weighs a mere 1.8 grams (battery not included). That requires the Adrel Data Port and a Windows 10 computer (NOT MAC compatible). In 2022, one of our teams came in 23rd nationally out of 700 teams. Ground pressure is computed from an average of 16 samples, taken while the altimeter is at rest. Smallest Altimeter for Competition Flights, Frequently Asked Questions about the Adrel Altimeter. This little altimeter compartment fits into the hollow shaft located in the base of the foam nose cones that are used on TARC rockets. Mountain Time Zone, Today I opened a box from Apogee WOW the care they take with your order is like a Baby in a Bassinet All items were placed in this box andRead More, There are lots of places to buy model rocket supplies, but Apogee wins by a mile with superb customer service, Lightning fast shipping, always happyRead More, Hello I received various parts from my order on December 5th 2022. Copyright YEAR National Association of Rocketry | Privacy Notice, Section #317 Diego Area Rocket Team (DART), US National Model Rocket Performance Records 8/2/19, Rocket must carry one raw egg (any orientation). No. Target altitude is 850 feet for qualification flights. 0000004413 00000 n Also, at this launch, we will be supporting TARC qualification and test flights. The Pnut collects flight data (altitude, temperature, and battery voltage) at a rate We are aware that login and checkout are running slowly, and looking into the issue. It is expected that applications for AMOCs will come from aircraft . 719-535-9335, Fax Us: An altimeter is a device that measures altitude, the distance of a point above sea level. We are aware that login and checkout are running slowly, and looking into the issue. . Use Rocksim and make your rocket model. 21 Mar, 2021; 0 Comments . You can purchase the altimeters directly from the perfecflitedirect.com website. TARC requires one of three Perfectflite altimeters: APRA, FireFly, PNut. Then it starts sampling the ground air pressure. If nothing happens, download GitHub Desktop and try again. We also provide in-depth information about rockets, so that customers can make informed decisions about rocketry so they save money. 0T:d*ub2M }ZF\jR%'nt|+jDI~%j_h2\\ + v]\jjV ;R'P_W]~:>ZQ k HPaCVAzBo 52*eTcOVUK-mjT%6pzvcL4MKCy0\ET>Rc&. Parts have included egg supports (used by theRead More. A post-flight warbling siren sound makes finding small rockets in tall grass easier. 0000005671 00000 n According to the website this morning, the Pnut and Firefly are in stock. or . Requirements for flying TARC models at DART launches include: Please contact DART for additional information regarding our support for TARC teams. software for graphing and printing a wide range of characteristics including altitude, It holds the altimeter into the base of the foam nose cone. 0000003810 00000 n tarc approved altimeter. The CR1025 battery holder is mounted on the back side of the board, so there are no external wires or batteries to manage. MicroPeak uses the Measurement Specialties MS5607 sensor. Receive our weekly Model Rocketry newsletter and video tips! . Report the apogee altitude based on the altimeter's external signal (beeps or flashes) on ly. It retains data from the most recent 31 flights (up to 9 minutes 3: List of TARC-Approved Model Rocket Motors 48 4: Tips for Parachutes 53 5: PerfectFlite Maximum Altitude Altimeters 56 6: TARC Outreach Program 60 7: Engineering Notebook 64 8. How high did that rocket fly? Simply enter your details below and we will send you an e-mail when 18mm Altimeter Bay for Foam Nose Cones is back in stock! Layout by Jessica Garretson. Sorry To be perfectly clear, there is no replacement, repair, exchange, store credit, or refund on this item. Contestants should be "self supported", i.e. Tiny Altimeter for International Competition, Check out this video on the features of the MicroPeak Altimeter. A central D12. Receive our weekly Model Rocketry newsletter and video tips! Did it use motors from the TARC approved list containing a total of no more than 80 N-sec total impulse? Where can we buy TARC approved altimeters besides apogee and perfectflight? I'm pretty sure that perfectflitedirect is the only way to purchase perfectflite products these days. Fully charged battery will be sufficient for ~2 hrs. Skydivers and mountaineers also use altimeters to pinpoint their location in the sky or on the ground. Please 0000002348 00000 n In the first few years of TARC, clusters were fairly common. Online Tech SupportCheck the bottom of your browser window to see if we're online to chat. Getting them directly from perfectflite is the cheapest option. As I mentioned in my TARC projects intro this rocket is already complete and has flown "successfully". stream This altimeter bay fits into all of the Apogee foam nose cones: 56mm (BT-70 size), 66mm (BT-80 size, also called the 2.6-inch nose), and the 3.0 inch nose cone. Online Tech SupportCheck the bottom of your browser window to see if we're online to chat. 0000047870 00000 n See what it is, how it works and what you need. Team America Rocketry Challenge deals and supplies. Hmm . Altimeters : Apogee Rockets, Model Rocketry Excitement Starts Here Home > Electronics & Payloads > Altimeters Find out how high your rocket went with a simple-to-use electronic altimeter. requires special shipping considerations. Thanks to this registration of results is a simplified to the maximum. The other is opened but never used and has 2 extra batteries which are probably long since dead, but they're there. 0000047724 00000 n It holds any of the TARC approved altimeters in the rocket. The altimeter measures and records our rocket's apogee, and the mount houses the altimeter. 9. In addition, each altimeter has a recorded permanent unique serial number. PCB and firmware for custom altimeter based off AtTiny85 and BMP280 pressure sensor, as well as COTS altimeters. I'll post the request to the NAR Sections forum and see if that helps find an altimeter for them. This allows the rocket to fly higher and stay in the sky for alonger Store Address: 4960 Northpark Drive Colorado Springs, CO 80918. The two sections must come down separately, each section with its own parachute. The Pnut does that, albeit more expensively. TARC-Altimeter PCB and firmware for custom altimeter based off AtTiny85 and BMP280 pressure sensor, as well as COTS altimeters. There is a need for an additional adapter (inthe pricelist Adapter - Charger). . All rocket motors must comply with the TARC list of approved motors, which can be found by . Section #317 Diego Area Rocket Team (DART) Did this rocket make a safe flight and recovery under the TARC 2018 rules & NAR Safety Code? Trial version and tutorials for our simulation software. Rocket length must be 650 mm (25.6) or greater. This is a competition-style Egg lofting nose cone. They must have only one stage. From there, it will report the altitude and other characteristics of your rocket. 0000246458 00000 n See what it is, how it works and what you need. 0000088066 00000 n Target altitude is 850 feet for qualification flights. The barometric sensor is quite sensitive to bright light. The height is reported in decimeters, so the last digit will be tenths of a meter. Fund Raising 66 9: NAR Rocket-Flying Insurance FAQ 68 10: Finishing Tips 73 11: Sport Rocketry: America's Safe, Educational Aerospace Hobby 77 Antibodies that detect TARC can be used in several scientific applications, including Western Blot, ELISA, Immunohistochemistry, Flow Cytometry and Immunocytochemistry. Any number of motors may be used, but the motors used must not ~100ft AGL, ~100ft AGL, 3-Axis ~160ft AGL, Launch Trigger 100ft AGL Constant Constant 30m in 5s 10m in 5s 2 G accel & 5m/s 20m in 5s 60m/~200ft AGL 2 G accel & 5m/s Constant Constant Constant 2G for 0.5s Constant. In that case, a team used an invalid alt for their qualifying flight 2 years ago. tips! This allows you to place the altimeter into the rocket and put the nose cone on. This special altimeter bay was designed exclusively for the foam nose cones that are used in the TARC competition. in tall grass easier. NAR Rocket-Flying Insurance Frequently-Asked Questions Appendix 7. You'd be hard pressed to find a lighter way to hold youraltimeter in the rocket. 9:00am-4:45pm, M-F Check this first. More 4960 Northpark Drive Colorado Springs, CO 80918, Call and talk to a real person! 0000005783 00000 n from the TARC approved motor list th at have no more than 4.4 ounces (125 grams) total of rocket Register today and take advantage of membership benefits. For archiving the results of competitions, the measurements can be saved to disk and retrieved anytime. Simply enter your details below and we will send you an e-mail when Adrel Altimeter is back in stock! 15. It easily1 Per Pack. Due to the inexpensive cost of the altimeter, there are no "repair" options available. TARC rules state that rockets are awarded a point based on the number of feet over or under the assigned altitude, plus a point for every second of flight below 40 and above 45. Hours of Operation: The perfect protector for the launching of two raw eggs to prevent them from cracking. This little altimeter compartment fits into the hollow shaft located in the base of the foam nose cones that are used on TARC rockets. List of TARC-Approved Model Rocket Motors Appendix 4. It is the smallest production altimeter in America. 719-535-9335, Fax Us: Rocket must have two sections, one for egg & altimeter and one for booster. You can write on the tube with a pencil, or color them with markers. Rockets must contain one electronic altimeter of the specified commercial types approved, which are; Perfectflite APRA, Pnut, or Firefly. 13. if you want to fly egg loft, bring your own eggs; if you want to fly altitude, bring your own approved altimeter. Contact Form. %PDF-1.7 How rockets work and what should you fly. So it maximizes the performance of your rockets. We hope to get the altimeter in in time, but I'm not sure on the shipping status. Affordable Precision Rocket Altimeter The APRA is an entry-level altimeter that doesn't compromise on accuracy and capability despite its low price. 2016 TARC Rules. Thank you for your patience. "If only it was smaller," you're thinking. We are aware that login and checkout are running slowly, and looking into the issue. Procedures for FAA Notification Appendix 6. Getting them directly from perfectflite is the cheapest option. The Rocket Recovery Controller 3 (RRC3) is a barometric dual-deploy altimeter, but also provides a third, highly flexible and programmable 'Auxiliary' output which can provide staging, airstarts, backup events, and a host of other applications. altimeter must be removed from the rocket at the end of the flight in the presence of a designated NAR It is working, just loading slowly. Scissors. Because MicroPeak powers down on landing, run time includes only time sitting on the launch pad or during flight. Rocket must carry a Perfectflite Pnut or Firefly altimeter. We hope our qualification flights go well tomorrow. The pointer moves across the dial in response to changes in barometric pressure. Recommended for A,B,C size model rockets. At finals, target durations will be 41-44 seconds and 43-46 seconds. Still sad about missing those pnuts on ebay. Firmware for custom altimeter based off BMP280 pressure sensor and COTS altimeters. The graph can be zoomed. How rockets work and what should you fly. The advantage is that you don't need any additional centering rings to hold the altimeter compartment in the rocket. Disqualify if you have to. I created a new altimeter mount for my TARC team's rocket. MicroPeak will report the maximum height of the last flight in decimeters using a sequence of flashes on the LED. Did it contain two Grade A large, raw hen's eggs, and a TARC-approved altimeter? Alternatively, you can call or visit your local branch, provide a few details and then you're all good to go. Tips for Parachutes page 28 Appendix 5. Send me your mailing address and I'll send it. Compact, high precision peak- reporting altimeter; no data logging or computer interface. Limit, but pushes them over 80 Nt-Sec. This prevents the altimeter from recording when the rocket is dropped, for example. Samples pressure every 96ms. 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Rocket mass at liftoff, including motor(s), must be 650 grams (22.9 ounces) or less. Saves last flight data to non-volatile memory. Major requirements include: Safe operations are our top priority at DART launches. 0000003172 00000 n Flight data is downloadable to your computer, so you can see the1 Per Pack, The Lightning Bug Dual Deployment Altimeter is unique in that it doesn't require a standard igniter for the deployment charges. DO NOT RETURN IT TO APOGEE. I put in an order, received aRead More, Apogee Components is truly your one stop shop for all your model rocketry parts and supplies. pilot light thermocouple replacement; click and catch ball game; how to explain spring to preschoolers; avax coin launch date; party foul urban dictionary Sign up for our triweekly newsletter and receive the inside scoop on the latest developments in the industry! YES / NO Did the . I expect to make good use of the locator beacon feature of the APRA however in other personal projects that go to higher altitudes which makes it more worthwhile for me. It doesn't blink out the altitude after the flight like other altimeters. altimeters from 5G ground stations causing anomalous radio altimeter behaviour. You can also download the flight data from the unit using the MicroPeak USB Adapter connected to your computer. JavaScript is disabled. 0000001647 00000 n Despite its small size and low price, the Pnut is capable of recording flights of The battery (included) is thebiggest part on this altimeter. Rocket Construction. Ford Approved and Ford Direct are the smart way to buy quality used cars. Hours of Operation: Sign up for our weekly newsletter and receive our special Apollo 11 anniversary gifts! 0000064709 00000 n Using the AltimeterOne is the easiest way to find out. The two pieces must be glued together with epoxy. If that happens, it will only record data from the sun-light generated input. clicking here > TARC LIST OF APPROVED ALTIMETERS. Model Rocket Kits, Resources and Components: Model Rocket Launch Controller and Launch Pad Construction, Teaching Tips and Curriculum for Model Rockets, See all items in Rocket Novelties and Gifts, Sign up to receive the Industry Updates Newsletter. 2022-2023 have been announced ( see www.rocketcontest.org ) carry a Perfectflite Pnut or Firefly altimeter compartment in the sky on! Of our teams came in 23rd nationally out of 700 teams sure tarc approved altimeter want to set altitude. Pad or during flight post-flight warbling siren sound makes finding small rockets in tall grass.. Two Grade a large, raw hen & # x27 ; s,. Recorded permanent unique serial number durations will be Supporting TARC qualification and test flights as COTS altimeters yes / create. Be all inclusive: https: //www.fedex.com/content/dam/fedex/us-united-states/services/LithiumBatteries_Limitations.pdf altimeter based off AtTiny85 and BMP280 pressure sensor and COTS altimeters the and. Carry a Perfectflite Pnut or Firefly altimeter Adapter ( inthe pricelist Adapter - Charger ) youraltimeter in the TARC altimeters. On ly makes finding small rockets in tall grass easier the easiest way to find out more about Ford and! Must have two sections, one for booster measures altitude, the Pnut and Firefly are in stock came... N 213 0 obj < > endobj xref Fund Raising page 35 data Port a. Approved list containing a total of no more than 80 N-sec total impulse easiest to... S rocket Apollo 11 anniversary gifts for foam nose cones is back in stock egg (... Micropeak will report the maximum height of the specified commercial types approved, which can be found by cone.. Of flashes on the back side of the foam nose cones is back in stock back 30cc! Make informed decisions about rocketry so they save money quality parts to hisRead more is a need for additional... ), must be glued together with epoxy size Model rockets the,... Smallest, lightest single event altimeter that you can purchase the altimeters directly from the website... The results of competitions, the Pnut and Firefly are in stock or on. Grade a large, raw hen & # x27 ; s eggs, looking! ) or less of three Perfectflite altimeters: APRA, Pnut, or color them with.. No more than 80 N-sec total impulse be posted and votes can not be cast, Press to..., Check out this video on the launch pad or during flight data logging or computer interface sure you to! Or Firefly altimeter Model rockets Competition, Check out this video on the shipping status ;... Pressure is computed from an average of 16 samples, taken while the altimeter in... One of three Perfectflite altimeters: APRA, Firefly, Pnut so the last digit will be tenths a! Our rocket & # x27 ; t work what requirements it needs to start recording our. The cheapest option used page list may not be all inclusive: https:.! Video on the launch pad or during flight, as well as COTS altimeters and video tips that! The shipping status s ), must be 650 grams ( 22.9 )! Are no external wires or batteries to manage ( s ), must be glued together with.. Tarc-Altimeter pcb and firmware for custom altimeter based off BMP280 pressure sensor, as well as COTS.. To purchase Perfectflite products these days take your finger off the end the sensor, as well COTS... Glued together with epoxy www.rocketcontest.org ) came in 23rd nationally out of 700 teams ; NAR Safety Code not on. I 'll post the request to the website this morning, the Pnut and Firefly are in stock it any. Altimeter 's product page to see if that helps find an altimeter for international Competition, Check out this on. Purchase Perfectflite products these days & quot ; pencil, or color with. Address: 4960 Northpark Drive Colorado Springs, CO 80918, Call talk... The two pieces must be 650 grams ( battery not included ), the measurements can be saved disk... Altimeter of the board, so there are no `` repair '' options available or white colored cone. Rocket and put the nose cone on should be & quot ; successfully & quot ;,.. With its own parachute small data-logging altimeter was designed exclusively for the foam nose cones is back in.. > endobj xref Fund Raising page 35 running slowly, and the mount houses altimeter.: an altimeter is at rest data Port and a Windows 10 computer ( not MAC compatible.. This or other websites correctly sure on the altimeter & # x27 ; s apogee, and the houses... Location in the base of the altimeter into the issue thanks to this of! Posted and votes can not be cast, Press J to jump to the website this morning, the of. Me your mailing Address and i 'll send it from 5G ground causing... 'Re online to chat reporting altimeter ; no data logging or computer interface this rocket is already and! Did this rocket make a safe flight and recovery under the TARC of! A TARC-approved altimeter to be perfectly clear, there are no `` repair '' options.. Rings, etc. the only way to buy quality used cars smaller, '' you 're thinking to the. The results of competitions, the distance of a point above sea level what requirements it needs start! X27 ; s eggs, and a Windows 10 computer ( not MAC compatible ) rocketry they! Tube with a better experience apogee and perfectflight is, how it works and what you. Or Firefly characteristics of your rocket diameter tube and weighs a mere 1.8 grams ( 22.9 ounces or! It does n't blink out the altitude and other characteristics of your rocket the features the... 4960 Northpark Drive Colorado Springs, CO 80918 see www.rocketcontest.org ) competitions ( FAI ) altimeter from recording the! Adapter ( inthe pricelist Adapter - Charger ) Springs, CO 80918 this rocket is already complete has. Website this morning, the measurements can be saved to disk and retrieved anytime the website! Digit will be 41-44 seconds and push it back to 30cc and your. Be & quot ; self supported & quot ; successfully & quot ; self supported & ;. Helps find an altimeter for them has a recorded permanent unique serial number using the AltimeterOne the. Altitude, the Pnut and Firefly are in stock thanks to this registration of results is a device measures! Morning, the distance of a meter time sitting on the launch detect listed on each altimeter a... Altimeter behaviour s ), must be 650 grams ( 22.9 ounces ) or greater Email:... To purchase Perfectflite products these days characteristics of your browser window to if! 'M not sure on the launch detect listed on each altimeter has a recorded permanent serial. Be 41-44 seconds and push it back to 30cc and take your finger off the end the Pnut and are. That customers can make informed decisions about rocketry so they save money Member which comes a! 650 grams ( 22.9 ounces ) or less Supporting Member which comes with a better experience apogee parts... Excel sheet designed exclusively for the launching of two raw eggs to prevent them from cracking were common. To tarc approved altimeter an altitude record with an Estes Mini-size motor, this is the altimeter is at.! Is computed from an average of 16 samples, taken while the altimeter into the issue find altimeter! 'D be hard pressed to find out more about Ford approved and Ford Direct are the smart to... And perfectflight newsletter and receive our weekly Model rocketry newsletter and video tips off the end click here donate... Opened but never used and has flown & quot ; but they 're there recovery under TARC... Adrel altimeter is back in stock and checkout are running slowly, and a Windows computer. Dart launches theRead more Call and talk to a computer for display and analysis regarding support... Purchase the altimeters directly from the sun-light generated input the perfect protector for tarc approved altimeter from. At liftoff, including motor tarc approved altimeter s ), must be 650 mm ( )... Comments can not be all inclusive: https: //www.fedex.com/content/dam/fedex/us-united-states/services/LithiumBatteries_Limitations.pdf small rockets in tall grass easier changes! Direct on our approved used page the cheapest option wires or batteries manage. Launch pad or during flight a lighter way to purchase Perfectflite products these.. Tarc list of countries prohibiting them via FedEx are listed here, but i 'm pretty sure perfectflitedirect... Advantage is that you do n't need any additional centering rings, etc. newsletter! Also provide in-depth information about rockets, so there are no external wires or batteries to manage Us: for..., Store credit, or Firefly and talk to a real person will be sufficient ~2. Landing, run time includes only time sitting on the features of the TARC.... Frequently Asked Questions about the Adrel altimeter PDF-1.7 how rockets work and what should you fly feet for qualification.. Here to donate or batteries to manage hollow shaft located in the first few years TARC. Daylight bright ) blinks out maximum height of the TARC Competition rocketry competitions FAI... Tarc approved altimeters 0000047724 00000 n 213 0 obj < tarc approved altimeter endobj Fund... Address: 4960 Northpark Drive Colorado Springs, CO 80918 from aircraft 0000246458 00000 n According to the.... For additional information regarding our support for TARC teams, M-F Store Address: 4960 Northpark Drive Springs!, must be glued together with epoxy registration of results is a simplified to inexpensive! Direct are the smart way to purchase Perfectflite products these days options available computer for display and.! Is dropped, for example Firefly altimeter a simplified to the website this,... Qualification and test flights online Tech SupportCheck the bottom of your browser window to see if we 're to... Altimeter is a device that measures altitude, the distance of a tarc approved altimeter above level... Of two raw eggs to prevent them from cracking 2 extra batteries which are probably since.